I guess I have to talk about the Tron thing?

in hive-167922 •  10 days ago  (edited)

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Never before has Steemit received so much "positive" press in the history of its existence. I read all 5 posts in my news feed. One of them was even a word for word copy of the previous post I had just read.

The posts about this are very largely worthless when it comes to divining any information about what is actually going on. However, the running theme throughout all the articles was that Steem tokens will exist inside the Tron ecosystem (much like Tether exists on Ethereum and Tron and many other places).

A lot of people are assuming that EVERY Steem coin will be migrated and our blockchain will be dead in the water with little to no development. You'll notice that Steemit Inc isn't saying anything and Justin Sun is doing all the talking. That's a dead giveaway that the information we are receiving is largely not accurate. Justin Sun has a long history of overhyping literally everything. Somehow, the market is still bullish on his every word. I don't get it. He is the physical embodiment of a pump/dump, and has already caused over a dozen of those over the last few years.

Most of the posts on this topic say things like "Steemit has a million users" and all kinds of other BS marketing hype. There's a lot of misinformation out there about this.

Most bullish scenario.

Steemit Inc has been sold, that much is obvious. Hopefully that means Justin Sun is going to hire and train even more developers to understand the Steem blockchain.

But Steem is being liquidated... right?

People are worried that every Steem coin is going to be migrated to Tron and then our blockchain will be left to die. To be honest, if Steem can be taken out that easily, let it die. I don't really see that happening.

A token on Tron that represents Steem could be overwhelmingly bullish. Being able to upvote content on Tron just like you would on Steem would be some pretty heavy hitting interoperability.

Interoperability

This is the most bullish scenario, where Steem and Tron work together and have representations of each other's tokens on the network. Tron gets a Steem token, Steem gets and SMT Tron token. It's the same concept that Tether is using to put their token on all the smart-contract platforms, allowing atomic swaps to occur directly on chain.

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Biggest fears.

Steem 100% migrates to Tron and our blockchain is left derelict. I don't see a reality of how this can happen, but everyone seems to be fearing it. You can't just plop all the Steem code on Tron and expect it to work. It makes a lot more sense for this whole "token migration" business to be a two-way street that goes in both directions permanently. Tron has a bank of Steem coins used to back the value of Steem-Tron tokens (likely bought from Steemit Inc's stake)

Conclusion

Funny how we all take this time to speculate what the fuck is going on even when we're going to be told tomorrow. Then again, I'm glad Ned is out of here. Douchebag doesn't even have a @steemitblog post ready for this moment? So infuriatingly unprofessional.

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Oh SNAP!

Sick burn, @anthonyadavisii

It's times like this that I'm glad to be so bullish on Ethereum. Bigger more decentralized chains will never have to deal with bull shit of this magnitude. This decision was made by a single person.

Potentially what?

40 million coins sold to Tron? Cool. Although they are talking about an airdrop to Tron holders so that would actually make us more decentralized? Who knows.

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Steem 100% migrates to Tron and our blockchain is left derelict.

This is what I think will be happening.

I don't see a reality of how this can happen...You can't just plop all the Steem code on Tron and expect it to work.

You can't just "plop" it, but you can build it. They said very clearly in the announcement that:

TRON and Steemit’s development teams will immediately begin working together to bring Steemit and other Steem blockchain based DApps to TRON blockchain.

So they make a new token on Tron called "STEEM", and they work with the Steem core developers who now work for them to rebuild the Steem posting and voting system as smart contracts on the Tron chain.

It makes a lot more sense for this whole "token migration" business to be a two-way street that goes in both directions permanently.

No, it doesn't. Justin Sun wants to take Steem and make it part of Tron.

Awesome news for all investors

good... luck?

I mean obviously if you're worried then I am also concerned.

I personally can't envision exactly how this worst-case-scenario plays out. A highly successful hostile takeover seems unlikely somehow, with almost the guarantee of some kind of fork. No?

How I visualize the worst case...

Converting tokens actually requires a swap. Users give their Steem in exchange for “TronSteem.” This is of course voluntary, but with every user who makes the switch (and many will, to follow dApps that are lured over, fear of being left behind on a chain with no formal development team, etc.) Tron’s governance stake in the original Steem blockchain grows.

Unless a large majority of Steem stakeholders refuse to switch, Tron both builds “Steem 2.0” on their chain, and simultaneously assumes full centralized governance control over “Steem 1.0.”

I can foresee a Steemian community that wants to remain independent forking... but we would be the forked branch, not the original. That means a new token, no exchange listings, liquidity, or value to start... I honestly don’t know if that branch survives.

This is all speculation, I’ll be eager to hear conversion details tomorrow.

Ouch... when the worst scenario is the one most likely to happen :/ But what about steem power? You can't swap those (without power down). But what about steem power? You can't swap those (without power down).

There could easily be a deadline for swaps that accounts for power downs, perhaps the conversion offer remains open for 6 months to a year. Again... all speculation on my part! Honestly, I personally did start a precautionary power down today just to get the ball rolling in case I want to swap or cash out. I can always cancel as events shape up over the coming weeks.

you are in for Steem 2.0 fork like Steem classic?

With SMT and Communities without Steemit inc?

Sounds like the next hardfork will have more than just smteees!

As long as the witnesses keep running what we have nothing changes.

Could you guys fork out Steemit.inc before Justin takes control of the stake and votes in his witnesses?

Wanted to point out my clarification. Due to twitter character limits I excluded "true glory" and made clear what I mean in the following tweet which makes the tone much positive imo.

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Towards Steem. Ned's leadership?... Not so much.

I'm suddenly reminded of the whole "Downvoted for aggrandizement" debacle.

https://steemit.com/eos/@dan/ukoxz-eos-io-development-update#@ned/re-dan-ukoxz-eos-io-development-update-20180203t190236132z

There has been a man-child at the helm of this ship since inception.

Oh the memories when i made a comment about aggrandizement and got a big vote from @dan

Good times. Lol 😁

Although I would trust the man for hairstyle tips. Right @nedshair?

I am of the "all publicity is good publicity" bandwagon. This will either shake up the ecosystem in a good way which we all agree with; or finally motivate the people here with vested stake to start a truly independent blockchain without steemit. Either way we will win in the long run I think. My guess is that they may simply link the steem token to TRX in a claytons way; steem really runs on steempower not steem so they could have steem on Tron and then when you vest it is linked as steempower on the steem blockchain which continues to do its thing and have its own governance structure. I think his main game is increasing perceived user volume on TRX DApp listings so he can get closer to ETH. Do we really think TRX wants to run the governance of a whole social media platform? Even Voice is on a sub chain of EOS not the mainnet.

I tend to agree. If Steem can't survive the whims of a child in the driver's seat then how would we ever survive attacks by entire governments. Censorship resistance is not a given, it has to prove itself.

lol for sure.

I just popped on because I saw the news on Twitter... glad yours is the first article I read about it. Probably the only one I need to be honest...

It is good to see the some noise out there about steem ; time will tell how it pans out.

Thanks for pointing out the interoperability scenario. Seems like this would be the best way to go - a win-win.

I don't know the Tron blockchain technology, but I have doubts about Steem dapps being able to operate there. Migration doesn't happen just like that. There are layers and layers of technology enabling the Steem dapps to work on the Steem blockchain. And it can scale, has developer friendliness, nodes require low resources, and it is well tested with real-world dapps. Can the Tron blockchain do all this? I'm a regular dev, not a blockchain dev, but I have big doubts.

This is really an "i don't know" thing.

And that is bad.

When you are used to dealing with a group of people... and then a new group of people come in and say "we're in charge", things do not go well.

The big thing, the thing that has been confusing me ever since steemit != STEEM thing, is who and what is steemit?

Steemit has just been the big kid on the block-chain, but what power can they really wield?

My guess is we are going to have several new front ends, especially for onboarding new steemians.

I don't think the Steem Inc. stake moving to the hands of Justin Sun will make this more decentralized....

I mean if airdrops Tron holders it automatically becomes more decentralized, as stake from one account goes to many. But I guess speculating on logistics is a pointless endeavor.

Honestly, as soon as I understood the ninjamine, I saw this coming. I note the community is the critical commodity on Steem, and everything the community isn't is open source.

Either Tron plays nice, or Steem forks out stake, and allows folks to buy in rather than allowing a ninjamine to centralize it again IMHO. I wouldn't cry if there was a cap on individual accounts that buy in, just to force whales to do the extra work to manage multiple accounts in order to wield whale stakes.

I'm not a dev, and can't speak to that ability with authority, but I am aware of folks that are that aren't fans of Tron, centralization, and perhaps have been hankering at the bit for a while to fork out ninjamines anyway. I reckon there's talent nominal to enable Steem to progress developmentally, given our current SPS mechanism, even without Steemit's devs or Tron's.

I could be full of shit too.

The critical things for me is that I will not KYC/AML - this is why I do not have a bank account at all, amongst other reasons - and I will not be interested in limits on speech or censoring content. I've objected to the censorship that was built in to Steemit from the outset with greying out posts, and vehemently objected to the #irredeemables censorship that targeted @fulltimegeek.

If there's not an app I can post on Steem with, I guess I'll give up and migrate to linux or summat. I am highly skeptical that Tron will support a censorship resistant platform, and expect I won't be able to transition to Tron, or Treem, or Ston, or whatever it ends as.

As long as there's a few folks that wanna hear me rant, I'll keep posting, but only if I can speak forthrightly and at my sole option. TBH, I don't even care about the money. I'll depart this world with all I need of that.

Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about KYC, Justin Sun trashed KYC when he bought Poloniex.

https://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-drops-kyc-for-withdrawals-below-10000-following-us-exit

Fork the code, remove all of steemit incs stake asap.

Ned already made sure the tumble all of Steemit inc's stake on the exchanges to unknown accounts.

I am sure they will have to identify them as part of the deals due diligence. Even if we cold identity and remove half of stincs stake, it would remove the threat of one person holding so much of stake in steem.

Goddamn, thats right... He already set this up months ago.

The best of it: we will finally run smart contracts on Steem v-v

Let’s be practical. Tron moves ahead with projects. They deliver. We have been stuck in this set up for a long time.
It’s a lot more easier to launch a token on Tron and get users to work with it. smts will finally be a reality

You are being overly optimistic. Justin is a slimy snake. He has no use for negotiation nor does he care about anyone or anything.
You will take what he gives you and you will like it..

He thinks he bought a blockchain and thats what he is expecting to get.

He thinks he bought a blockchain

Does he? Literally everyone knows you need 51% of the stock for a hostile takeover to work. Of course in the context of corporations you can't just fork the stock and tell that person to fuck off.

The guy went to an Ivy League school and is the face of the #15 network by market cap. How could he possibly think he bought a community? He knows he bought a corporation, and he's trying to figure out how much leverage that corporation has on the community.

I wonder how much Ned lied to him and now Ned is laughing behind closed doors thinking:

This shit is your problem now.
Thanks for the exit.

Literally everyone knows you need 51% of the stock for a hostile takeover to work.

Not really. He doesnt need 51% because only powered up Steem votes. Not all powered up steem is active. Matt only has about 45 million SP voting for him and hes the top witness.
Justin could force the community to take his trc10 shitcoin instead of steem. He is friends with CZ and if we fork ill guarantee you that he will convince him to list the new TRC10 shitcoin as STEEM and if binance goes all exchanges go.
He can fuck us hard.

We need to revamp the witness voting ASAP and have a fork ready to go if needed.

I am a stake holder of TRX and STEEM. Where do I stand? Do I buy my TRX or will my STEEM be converted to TRX? If converted then will I have full control of it to move as I see fit?